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	<title>Comments on: Untangling Europe&#8217;s &#8220;web of debt&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/05/11/untangling-europes-web-of-debt/</link>
	<description>Irish Economy &#124; World Economy &#124; Property Market &#124; Economic Analysis &#124; Ronan Lyons</description>
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		<title>By: AndyC</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/05/11/untangling-europes-web-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-2381</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Nov 2010 18:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1294#comment-2381</guid>
		<description>Ronan

Do government debts also appear on the asset side of the ledger?

If so, hey it all comes out to 0, so whats to worry about.

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronan</p>
<p>Do government debts also appear on the asset side of the ledger?</p>
<p>If so, hey it all comes out to 0, so whats to worry about.</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.ronanlyons.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: AndyC</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/05/11/untangling-europes-web-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-2380</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Nov 2010 17:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1294#comment-2380</guid>
		<description>Ronan

How much are these 1.6 trillion in &quot;assets&quot; actually worth?

Whoops.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronan</p>
<p>How much are these 1.6 trillion in &#8220;assets&#8221; actually worth?</p>
<p>Whoops&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Credit Card Tips</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/05/11/untangling-europes-web-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1931</link>
		<dc:creator>Credit Card Tips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 08:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1294#comment-1931</guid>
		<description>I wonder which graphics were shown to the EU leaders at the weekend?! There would have been some presentations. I would love to get my hands on them.
daizy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder which graphics were shown to the EU leaders at the weekend?! There would have been some presentations. I would love to get my hands on them.<br />
daizy</p>
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		<title>By: How much trade has been lost in the Great Recession? &#124; Ronan Lyons</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/05/11/untangling-europes-web-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1861</link>
		<dc:creator>How much trade has been lost in the Great Recession? &#124; Ronan Lyons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2010 06:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1294#comment-1861</guid>
		<description>[...] Browse in World Economy  &#171; Untangling Europe&#8217;s &#8220;web of debt&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Browse in World Economy  &laquo; Untangling Europe&#8217;s &#8220;web of debt&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Another round up on Greek debt and the future of the euro zone</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/05/11/untangling-europes-web-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1822</link>
		<dc:creator>Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Another round up on Greek debt and the future of the euro zone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 15:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1294#comment-1822</guid>
		<description>[...] troubling is Ronan Lyons&#8217; argument for why Ireland isn&#8217;t Greece; Ireland&#8217;s debt lies far more in the private sector and less in the public sector. Lyons [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] troubling is Ronan Lyons&#8217; argument for why Ireland isn&#8217;t Greece; Ireland&#8217;s debt lies far more in the private sector and less in the public sector. Lyons [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ronan Lyons</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/05/11/untangling-europes-web-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1814</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronan Lyons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 08:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1294#comment-1814</guid>
		<description>Seems I&#039;m not the only one not fully impressed by the chart:
http://junkcharts.typepad.com/junk_charts/2010/05/untangling-europes-debt-web.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems I&#8217;m not the only one not fully impressed by the chart:<br />
<a href="http://junkcharts.typepad.com/junk_charts/2010/05/untangling-europes-debt-web.html" rel="nofollow">http://junkcharts.typepad.com/junk_charts/2010/05/untangling-europes-debt-web.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: stephen nally</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/05/11/untangling-europes-web-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1788</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen nally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 16:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1294#comment-1788</guid>
		<description>Hi Ronan,

&quot;They are worried particularly about government debt, because typically there is no corresponding asset&quot;.

Of course in the case of government debt, the corresponding asset is the population of the country. (I&#039;m joking, but it&#039;s sort of true).

Thanks for the previous clarification.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ronan,</p>
<p>&#8220;They are worried particularly about government debt, because typically there is no corresponding asset&#8221;.</p>
<p>Of course in the case of government debt, the corresponding asset is the population of the country. (I&#8217;m joking, but it&#8217;s sort of true).</p>
<p>Thanks for the previous clarification.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/05/11/untangling-europes-web-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1786</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 13:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1294#comment-1786</guid>
		<description>Hi Ronan,

Enjoyable as ever. 

Though could they not be raising two issues (perhaps without realising it):
1. Contagion effect. The &quot;web of debt&quot; highlights that Europe is interconnected through private/public debt, and a default could ripple through the EU through the banking system. The point being that any Greek default could cause a solvency crisis within the EU&#039;s banks, or could at least hinder Europe&#039;s recovery by limiting their banks ability to lend by eating up their &quot;capital&quot;.

2. A liquidity point. I doubt that countries have matched maturity profiles on their balance sheet - so if there assets are long term, and their liabilities short term they could get in a squeeze? So a spike in short term funding rates could push them insolvent.

Just one final clarification: my understanding of the BIS figures is that they measured cross-boarder activity so do not capture any domestic figures. So Ireland bailing out the banks would not appear in the figures unless the Government was unable to raise the sums domestically.

Best,

Ben</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ronan,</p>
<p>Enjoyable as ever. </p>
<p>Though could they not be raising two issues (perhaps without realising it):<br />
1. Contagion effect. The &#8220;web of debt&#8221; highlights that Europe is interconnected through private/public debt, and a default could ripple through the EU through the banking system. The point being that any Greek default could cause a solvency crisis within the EU&#8217;s banks, or could at least hinder Europe&#8217;s recovery by limiting their banks ability to lend by eating up their &#8220;capital&#8221;.</p>
<p>2. A liquidity point. I doubt that countries have matched maturity profiles on their balance sheet &#8211; so if there assets are long term, and their liabilities short term they could get in a squeeze? So a spike in short term funding rates could push them insolvent.</p>
<p>Just one final clarification: my understanding of the BIS figures is that they measured cross-boarder activity so do not capture any domestic figures. So Ireland bailing out the banks would not appear in the figures unless the Government was unable to raise the sums domestically.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>Ben</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/05/11/untangling-europes-web-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1784</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 May 2010 08:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1294#comment-1784</guid>
		<description>great thanx a lot mate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great thanx a lot mate</p>
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		<title>By: Ronan Lyons</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/05/11/untangling-europes-web-of-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-1782</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronan Lyons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 May 2010 23:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1294#comment-1782</guid>
		<description>@Stephen
They&#039;re not my figures, they&#039;re from the BIS/World Bank! (Which is a no, as you&#039;re talking about likely future debt, while the WB/BIS only measure realised debt liabilities.) Incidentally, those will be liabilities with assets, unlike the general government deficit. Getting peak-€80bn property for €40bn might not be the safest bet in the world, but it&#039;s certainly not guaranteed to lose money either!

Just a quick clarification, the 5% is not 5% of GDP, it&#039;s 5% of the total liabilities in the country which are state-owned.

@John
Honestly, flattery will get you everywhere! The Irish figures are compiled by the Central Statistics Office here - so perhaps it&#039;s worth checking with your equivalent. More generally, your Balance of Payments may have capital accounts details, which could have some of these statistics too. The European Commission also has some stats, for example: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Household_financial_assets_and_liabilities. Overall, though, the full extent of the point you&#039;d like to make is probably the preserve of a local research institute, as backing out wealth from the black market takes a range of techniques (e.g. using electricity consumption per capita).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Stephen<br />
They&#8217;re not my figures, they&#8217;re from the BIS/World Bank! (Which is a no, as you&#8217;re talking about likely future debt, while the WB/BIS only measure realised debt liabilities.) Incidentally, those will be liabilities with assets, unlike the general government deficit. Getting peak-€80bn property for €40bn might not be the safest bet in the world, but it&#8217;s certainly not guaranteed to lose money either!</p>
<p>Just a quick clarification, the 5% is not 5% of GDP, it&#8217;s 5% of the total liabilities in the country which are state-owned.</p>
<p>@John<br />
Honestly, flattery will get you everywhere! The Irish figures are compiled by the Central Statistics Office here &#8211; so perhaps it&#8217;s worth checking with your equivalent. More generally, your Balance of Payments may have capital accounts details, which could have some of these statistics too. The European Commission also has some stats, for example: <a href="http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Household_financial_assets_and_liabilities" rel="nofollow">http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Household_financial_assets_and_liabilities</a>. Overall, though, the full extent of the point you&#8217;d like to make is probably the preserve of a local research institute, as backing out wealth from the black market takes a range of techniques (e.g. using electricity consumption per capita).</p>
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