<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Spotting the swallows &#8211; Ireland&#8217;s rental market in 2010</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/</link>
	<description>Irish Economy &#124; World Economy &#124; Property Market &#124; Economic Analysis &#124; Ronan Lyons</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 27 Jan 2012 13:32:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Time to face reality, as rents start to rise for family homes &#124; Ronan Lyons</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-4241</link>
		<dc:creator>Time to face reality, as rents start to rise for family homes &#124; Ronan Lyons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1121#comment-4241</guid>
		<description>[...] who’s been paying attention to the number of properties available to rent. Indeed, as far back as January 2010, the signs pointed to stabilising rents. Whereas the total stock sitting on the sales market has been doggedly at close to 60,000 for three [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] who’s been paying attention to the number of properties available to rent. Indeed, as far back as January 2010, the signs pointed to stabilising rents. Whereas the total stock sitting on the sales market has been doggedly at close to 60,000 for three [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1477</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 13:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1121#comment-1477</guid>
		<description>Hi
Dont forget also that most renters currently locked into a contract will definetly be renegotiating this year as it is a buyers market. This will surely push prices down even further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi<br />
Dont forget also that most renters currently locked into a contract will definetly be renegotiating this year as it is a buyers market. This will surely push prices down even further.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stop the press &#8211; rents go up in January! &#124; Ronan Lyons</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1432</link>
		<dc:creator>Stop the press &#8211; rents go up in January! &#124; Ronan Lyons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1121#comment-1432</guid>
		<description>[...] the meantime, I can bask in the premature and perhaps transitory glow of my prediction of a month ago, while we have to wait until April to see whether it was indeed a one-off swallow or the herald of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the meantime, I can bask in the premature and perhaps transitory glow of my prediction of a month ago, while we have to wait until April to see whether it was indeed a one-off swallow or the herald of [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: FlyOver</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1365</link>
		<dc:creator>FlyOver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1121#comment-1365</guid>
		<description>An example of what is happening here in the States with rental property...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703415804575023483097973538.html

Key take-away...&quot;The venture had been struggling for months to restructure the debt but capitulated facing a massive debt load and a weak New York City economy that has undercut rents and demand for high-priced apartments. &quot;

And

By some accounts, Stuyvesant Town is only valued at $1.8 billion now, less than half the purchase price. By that measure, all the equity investors—including the California Public Employees&#039; Retirement System, a Florida pension fund and the Church of England—and many of the debtholders, including Government of Singapore Investment Corp., or GIC, and Hartford Financial Services Group, are in danger of seeing most, if not all, of their investments wiped out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An example of what is happening here in the States with rental property&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703415804575023483097973538.html" rel="nofollow">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703415804575023483097973538.html</a></p>
<p>Key take-away&#8230;&#8221;The venture had been struggling for months to restructure the debt but capitulated facing a massive debt load and a weak New York City economy that has undercut rents and demand for high-priced apartments. &#8221;</p>
<p>And</p>
<p>By some accounts, Stuyvesant Town is only valued at $1.8 billion now, less than half the purchase price. By that measure, all the equity investors—including the California Public Employees&#8217; Retirement System, a Florida pension fund and the Church of England—and many of the debtholders, including Government of Singapore Investment Corp., or GIC, and Hartford Financial Services Group, are in danger of seeing most, if not all, of their investments wiped out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ronan Lyons</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1342</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronan Lyons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 21:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1121#comment-1342</guid>
		<description>Hi FlyOver,
Thanks for the comment - it&#039;s an interesting point, and perhaps we will see a large contraction in supply of boomtime landlords whose business model no longer holds. But it&#039;s a bit of a catch 22. Given the high leverage by most investors during 2004-2007, they are likely to be in negative equity, meaning they are unlikely to be able to sell without some deal-making with their mortgage-holder. The people who would be able to sell without a loss would be those for whom rents are still, even though at 1999 levels, more than covering their mortgages!

Re the students, Galway in particular seems to be cyclical. If those cities are short on NAMA-esque properties, they may level well before some parts of Dublin with plenty of recent construction.

R</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi FlyOver,<br />
Thanks for the comment &#8211; it&#8217;s an interesting point, and perhaps we will see a large contraction in supply of boomtime landlords whose business model no longer holds. But it&#8217;s a bit of a catch 22. Given the high leverage by most investors during 2004-2007, they are likely to be in negative equity, meaning they are unlikely to be able to sell without some deal-making with their mortgage-holder. The people who would be able to sell without a loss would be those for whom rents are still, even though at 1999 levels, more than covering their mortgages!</p>
<p>Re the students, Galway in particular seems to be cyclical. If those cities are short on NAMA-esque properties, they may level well before some parts of Dublin with plenty of recent construction.</p>
<p>R</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: FlyOver</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1341</link>
		<dc:creator>FlyOver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1121#comment-1341</guid>
		<description>While I agree that the charts you have show Dublin to be settling into a rent stable environment based on demand, I just wonder how long those property owners can carry the new lower rents. Just because rents have stabilized means little for the owners of those properties if each unit rented is loss liter, so to say. If your mostly full property can not generate enough income each month to cover the business model, then I would expect to see a growing number of property owners going to the wall in foreclosures. It also looks like there is still a fair amount of supply that even if payments flatten out, there will be no room to start pushing rents up anytime soon. It will be interesting to see how long rents can stay at this level and still keep properties off the auction block.

Also, looking at the second chart the two other groups, &#039;other cities&#039; looks to be cyclical corresponding to the academic school year, high in summer months, low in school months. I would expect that with college students renting on campus and then living at home in the summer. As for the rest of the country line...well if you like the countryside, you can rent cheap!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that the charts you have show Dublin to be settling into a rent stable environment based on demand, I just wonder how long those property owners can carry the new lower rents. Just because rents have stabilized means little for the owners of those properties if each unit rented is loss liter, so to say. If your mostly full property can not generate enough income each month to cover the business model, then I would expect to see a growing number of property owners going to the wall in foreclosures. It also looks like there is still a fair amount of supply that even if payments flatten out, there will be no room to start pushing rents up anytime soon. It will be interesting to see how long rents can stay at this level and still keep properties off the auction block.</p>
<p>Also, looking at the second chart the two other groups, &#8216;other cities&#8217; looks to be cyclical corresponding to the academic school year, high in summer months, low in school months. I would expect that with college students renting on campus and then living at home in the summer. As for the rest of the country line&#8230;well if you like the countryside, you can rent cheap!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Niall</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1339</link>
		<dc:creator>Niall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1121#comment-1339</guid>
		<description>Rónán, Firstly I find your tables very interesting and accept there is logic in your argument, particularly in relation to quality units in good locations, e.g. Dublin 4, 6, 7 &amp; 9. Tenants can now pick and choose for both quality and location. 

Just too follow up on Treasa&#039;s point, it appears that the maximum rental payments payable by DSFA now exceed rents in many areas. If the DSFA were to reduce rent supports by say 10% wef June 2010, then it must have a serious influence, particularly in Western Dublin and beyond. All those FF landlords must be praying that Ms. Hanafin keeps writing the cheques!

The second point is emigration. There will be substantial net emigration in 2010 and I think it is clear that this also was the position in 2009. Emigration now includes substantial numbers of the traditional core Irish renters, those just out of college or coming to Dublin to work. With effectively no Public Service recruitment, there will be no &quot;culchies&quot; to fill all those vacant flats.

Finally, how much of the reduction is down to the withdrawal of properties from the market as owners consider what to do, rather than occupied accommodation filled with happy rent paying tenants?  There still is serious discounting going on, as can be seen in some of the more recent reviews on www.irishpropertywatch.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rónán, Firstly I find your tables very interesting and accept there is logic in your argument, particularly in relation to quality units in good locations, e.g. Dublin 4, 6, 7 &amp; 9. Tenants can now pick and choose for both quality and location. </p>
<p>Just too follow up on Treasa&#8217;s point, it appears that the maximum rental payments payable by DSFA now exceed rents in many areas. If the DSFA were to reduce rent supports by say 10% wef June 2010, then it must have a serious influence, particularly in Western Dublin and beyond. All those FF landlords must be praying that Ms. Hanafin keeps writing the cheques!</p>
<p>The second point is emigration. There will be substantial net emigration in 2010 and I think it is clear that this also was the position in 2009. Emigration now includes substantial numbers of the traditional core Irish renters, those just out of college or coming to Dublin to work. With effectively no Public Service recruitment, there will be no &#8220;culchies&#8221; to fill all those vacant flats.</p>
<p>Finally, how much of the reduction is down to the withdrawal of properties from the market as owners consider what to do, rather than occupied accommodation filled with happy rent paying tenants?  There still is serious discounting going on, as can be seen in some of the more recent reviews on <a href="http://www.irishpropertywatch.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.irishpropertywatch.com</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ciaran Daly</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1338</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciaran Daly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1121#comment-1338</guid>
		<description>RE: predictions, you could also have had 

Peter Schiff

Here&#039;s the proof from CNBC, of course, Bernanke says it wasn&#039;t even possible that monetary policy could have caused the crisis!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YTY5TWtmU</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: predictions, you could also have had </p>
<p>Peter Schiff</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the proof from CNBC, of course, Bernanke says it wasn&#8217;t even possible that monetary policy could have caused the crisis!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YTY5TWtmU" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YTY5TWtmU</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ronan Lyons</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1337</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronan Lyons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1121#comment-1337</guid>
		<description>Hi Treasa,

Thanks for the comment - on your second point (about 2007 as a base year), the data go back to 2002 for the rental market so the analysis can be extended. Without a formal graph to hand, I can say though that it wasn&#039;t that much of an outlier from previous years in terms of general levels of stock and flow (particularly compared to 2008 and 2009). The relative balance was certainly different though, hence rents rising at 12-15% per annum - as per the reasoning outlined in the post.

Your first point, on state-supported rents, is one well-made and one I haven&#039;t explicitly factored into the analysis yet. I&#039;ll look into it.

R</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Treasa,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment &#8211; on your second point (about 2007 as a base year), the data go back to 2002 for the rental market so the analysis can be extended. Without a formal graph to hand, I can say though that it wasn&#8217;t that much of an outlier from previous years in terms of general levels of stock and flow (particularly compared to 2008 and 2009). The relative balance was certainly different though, hence rents rising at 12-15% per annum &#8211; as per the reasoning outlined in the post.</p>
<p>Your first point, on state-supported rents, is one well-made and one I haven&#8217;t explicitly factored into the analysis yet. I&#8217;ll look into it.</p>
<p>R</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Treasa</title>
		<link>http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/01/19/spotting-the-swallows-irelands-rental-market-in-2010/comment-page-1/#comment-1335</link>
		<dc:creator>Treasa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 10:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=1121#comment-1335</guid>
		<description>Hi Ronan, 

in general, I don&#039;t see any mention of the HSE rental support which may be providing a floor in rents. I can see in my own area in Dublin that rents have levelled off at approximately the level matched by government support. 

2007 is a bad baseline year to take in my opinion because it represented a supply blip. Supply tightened late 2006-2007 as stock moved from rental to sales markets. This fed into rents which rose quite a bit compared to previous years. I&#039;m only voicing this as someone who was a tenant at that time and saw rents in my area in North Dublin rise by about 25% in that period having been static at the government supported level for the previous three or four years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ronan, </p>
<p>in general, I don&#8217;t see any mention of the HSE rental support which may be providing a floor in rents. I can see in my own area in Dublin that rents have levelled off at approximately the level matched by government support. </p>
<p>2007 is a bad baseline year to take in my opinion because it represented a supply blip. Supply tightened late 2006-2007 as stock moved from rental to sales markets. This fed into rents which rose quite a bit compared to previous years. I&#8217;m only voicing this as someone who was a tenant at that time and saw rents in my area in North Dublin rise by about 25% in that period having been static at the government supported level for the previous three or four years.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

