Comments on: An Bord Snip Nua – who is paying most? http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/07/16/an-bord-snip-who-is-paying-most/ Irish Economy | World Economy | Property Market | Economic Analysis | Ronan Lyons Fri, 27 Jan 2012 13:32:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Irish Arts €782m Profit Making Machine? | Diddlyi Mag http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/07/16/an-bord-snip-who-is-paying-most/comment-page-1/#comment-1173 Irish Arts €782m Profit Making Machine? | Diddlyi Mag Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:43:06 +0000 http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=749#comment-1173 [...] across their departments, including support for the arts. Colm McCarthy’s recent ‘Bord Snip Nua‘ document adopted a non-emotional method of highlighting areas where money could be saved in [...] [...] across their departments, including support for the arts. Colm McCarthy’s recent ‘Bord Snip Nua‘ document adopted a non-emotional method of highlighting areas where money could be saved in [...]

]]> By: kevin denny http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/07/16/an-bord-snip-who-is-paying-most/comment-page-1/#comment-719 kevin denny Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:04:51 +0000 http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=749#comment-719 Thats a fair point. Given that nobody knows what the value of most public expenditure programs (& one can't find these things out in a hurry) what were these guys to do? What would you do? First of all, to a large extent its a numbers game: cutting expenditure on, say, the Gaeltacht won't save much because not much is spent there. But a lot of small cuts add up so you do what you can. Then you take the big ticket items (social welfare,health etc). This is where the serious money is but there is no point in saying cut welfare payments by 15% so..5% seems reasonable given deflation. Interestingly, I saw today that the report cost €38k to produce ( I think that this was the sum total). Extraordinary value for money when you think about how much you have to pay SC's just to get out of bed. Thats a fair point. Given that nobody knows what the value of most public expenditure programs (& one can’t find these things out in a hurry) what were these guys to do? What would you do? First of all, to a large extent its a numbers game: cutting expenditure on, say, the Gaeltacht won’t save much because not much is spent there. But a lot of small cuts add up so you do what you can. Then you take the big ticket items (social welfare,health etc). This is where the serious money is but there is no point in saying cut welfare payments by 15% so..5% seems reasonable given deflation.
Interestingly, I saw today that the report cost €38k to produce ( I think that this was the sum total). Extraordinary value for money when you think about how much you have to pay SC’s just to get out of bed.

]]> By: Ronan Lyons http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/07/16/an-bord-snip-who-is-paying-most/comment-page-1/#comment-716 Ronan Lyons Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:54:22 +0000 http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=749#comment-716 Hi Kevin, You're absolutely right in one sense, department name is not important, it's the function that the Department is supposed to represent I was focusing on. Something I hope to draw out when I've had more time looking at the figures is to what extent we have a different nature of government now compared to say 2006 or 2002. The relatively small burden of cuts in Health and Education suggests that we may be turning our government away from regulation and other functions and into a giant service provider. There are lines put through many programmes with a simple "because of the state of the finances" - if these programmes offered nothing anyway, why were they formed in the first place and if they offer something valuable, why are they being cut? I think the huge problem with the McCarthy report on reflection is that they were told: Look only at the cost and not at the value - oh, and don't look at the biggest cost, public sector pay rates! Hi Kevin,
You’re absolutely right in one sense, department name is not important, it’s the function that the Department is supposed to represent I was focusing on. Something I hope to draw out when I’ve had more time looking at the figures is to what extent we have a different nature of government now compared to say 2006 or 2002.
The relatively small burden of cuts in Health and Education suggests that we may be turning our government away from regulation and other functions and into a giant service provider. There are lines put through many programmes with a simple “because of the state of the finances” – if these programmes offered nothing anyway, why were they formed in the first place and if they offer something valuable, why are they being cut?
I think the huge problem with the McCarthy report on reflection is that they were told: Look only at the cost and not at the value – oh, and don’t look at the biggest cost, public sector pay rates!

]]> By: kevin denny http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/07/16/an-bord-snip-who-is-paying-most/comment-page-1/#comment-715 kevin denny Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:36:22 +0000 http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=749#comment-715 Interesting exercise but...I think it has the wrong focus. The money that is being spent is the taxpayers not the Departments' and the analysis here suggests a "some departments are paying more than their share" line. Oh no they ain't. The spending cuts & re-structuring that goes with it needs to be evaluated on its merits and ONLY on its merits. So I think it is irrelevant, even unhelpful, to say that it is X% of some department's budget & Y% of somebody else's. Departments are simply administrative entities that are convenient to have - to a greater or lesser extent. Various functions (such as STI) could be in Enterprise or in Education. The only interesting policy questions are what is done & how much it costs & not whats on the letterhead. One valuable contribution of the McCarthy report (which will probably be overlooked in all the hysteria) is to try rationalize the allocation of functions across different entities and indeed the existence of some of these entities- the suggested abolition of the NUI is a prime example. Interesting exercise but…I think it has the wrong focus. The money that is being spent is the taxpayers not the Departments’ and the analysis here suggests a “some departments are paying more than their share” line. Oh no they ain’t. The spending cuts & re-structuring that goes with it needs to be evaluated on its merits and ONLY on its merits. So I think it is irrelevant, even unhelpful, to say that it is X% of some department’s budget & Y% of somebody else’s. Departments are simply administrative entities that are convenient to have – to a greater or lesser extent. Various functions (such as STI) could be in Enterprise or in Education. The only interesting policy questions are what is done & how much it costs & not whats on the letterhead.
One valuable contribution of the McCarthy report (which will probably be overlooked in all the hysteria) is to try rationalize the allocation of functions across different entities and indeed the existence of some of these entities- the suggested abolition of the NUI is a prime example.

]]> By: Michael O'Shea http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/07/16/an-bord-snip-who-is-paying-most/comment-page-1/#comment-714 Michael O'Shea Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:07:23 +0000 http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=749#comment-714 It would be nice to see some comparative analysis of: (1) Ministers and T.D.'s salaries and expenses compared with those of Finland, a country of similar population and similar, if better founded aspirations, (2) a comparison of % increases in basic social welfare payments with benchmarked civil servants incomes over the last 10 years. It would be nice to see some comparative analysis of:
(1) Ministers and T.D.’s salaries and expenses compared with those of Finland, a country of similar population and similar, if better founded aspirations,

(2) a comparison of % increases in basic social welfare payments with benchmarked civil servants incomes over the last 10 years.

]]> By: Irish Election » An Bord Snip: Social and Family Affairs http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/07/16/an-bord-snip-who-is-paying-most/comment-page-1/#comment-713 Irish Election » An Bord Snip: Social and Family Affairs Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:03:26 +0000 http://www.ronanlyons.com/?p=749#comment-713 [...] as the focus has basically been on cutting benefits and little else. Ironically, as Ronan Lyons has noted, the DoSFA is “the only Department whose spending looks set to increase no matter what, due to [...] [...] as the focus has basically been on cutting benefits and little else. Ironically, as Ronan Lyons has noted, the DoSFA is “the only Department whose spending looks set to increase no matter what, due to [...]

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